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	<title>Comments on: Nude Women, Skin Color, Huh?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.erosblog.com/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.erosblog.com/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/</link>
	<description>Sex Blogging, Gratuitous Nudity, Kinky Sex, Sundry Sensuality</description>
	<pubDate>Thu,  4 Dec 2008 21:48:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Bacchus</title>
		<link>http://www.erosblog.com/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/#comment-64859</link>
		<dc:creator>Bacchus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 16:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.erosblog.com/wp/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/#comment-64859</guid>
		<description>Coco, amputee?  I'll confess my first reaction to this photo was that she had her hand behind her back at an awkward angle, designed to make her breasts stick out.

Regardless, I disagree that this photo was not meant to be arousing. I think the photo was "clearly" posed to be erotic.  Even if you're right about the amputation, you are aware that amputee porn is a thriving fetish?  And this girl is beautiful, a fact which has not escaped our photographer.

I put my own "clearly" in quotes to mirror yours, and to highlight that it's a rhetorical trigger word we typically see in arguments where someone is trying to present opinion as fact.

Thanks for your perspective on the need for racialized porn.  If it's what turns you on, I'd be a hypocrite to speak against that.  I'm mildly startled to encounter someone for whom "reflective of themselves" is a porn selection criterion (I myself don't seek out porn based on whether or not it contains middle-aged white people) but hey, it's your libido.

But I'm still not going to start categorizing the porn on Erosblog by the skin color of the models.  For the reasons expressed in my &lt;a href="http://www.erosblog.com/2006/07/01/not-ignorant-adamant/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Not Ignorant, Adamant&lt;/a&gt; post, I "remain convinced it's a bad business."

I am curious how you conducted a search on my site "for color", though.  Did you page through five years of posts day-by-day?  If so, I'm impressed.  If not, what &lt;b&gt;did&lt;/b&gt; you do, to search for photographs that aren't labeled with "racial tags or identifiers" that I prefer to avoid?  How &lt;b&gt;do&lt;/b&gt; you do a text-based search for "color" in a database of text prepared by a willfully colorblind man?

I should point out that two of the three "Similar Sex Blogging" links at the end of this post take you to photographs of what you are calling "color".  (Doesn't that sound dehumanizing to you?  I'd much prefer to say something like "photographs of women".)  So if this post was the only "color" you found on ErosBlog, I submit to you that your search was defective.

Glad you "otherwise" enjoy the site, and sorry I can't (won't, prefer not to) help you in your ongoing quest for color-labeled porn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coco, amputee?  I&#8217;ll confess my first reaction to this photo was that she had her hand behind her back at an awkward angle, designed to make her breasts stick out.</p>
<p>Regardless, I disagree that this photo was not meant to be arousing. I think the photo was &#8220;clearly&#8221; posed to be erotic.  Even if you&#8217;re right about the amputation, you are aware that amputee porn is a thriving fetish?  And this girl is beautiful, a fact which has not escaped our photographer.</p>
<p>I put my own &#8220;clearly&#8221; in quotes to mirror yours, and to highlight that it&#8217;s a rhetorical trigger word we typically see in arguments where someone is trying to present opinion as fact.</p>
<p>Thanks for your perspective on the need for racialized porn.  If it&#8217;s what turns you on, I&#8217;d be a hypocrite to speak against that.  I&#8217;m mildly startled to encounter someone for whom &#8220;reflective of themselves&#8221; is a porn selection criterion (I myself don&#8217;t seek out porn based on whether or not it contains middle-aged white people) but hey, it&#8217;s your libido.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;m still not going to start categorizing the porn on Erosblog by the skin color of the models.  For the reasons expressed in my <a href="http://www.erosblog.com/2006/07/01/not-ignorant-adamant/" rel="nofollow">Not Ignorant, Adamant</a> post, I &#8220;remain convinced it&#8217;s a bad business.&#8221;</p>
<p>I am curious how you conducted a search on my site &#8220;for color&#8221;, though.  Did you page through five years of posts day-by-day?  If so, I&#8217;m impressed.  If not, what <b>did</b> you do, to search for photographs that aren&#8217;t labeled with &#8220;racial tags or identifiers&#8221; that I prefer to avoid?  How <b>do</b> you do a text-based search for &#8220;color&#8221; in a database of text prepared by a willfully colorblind man?</p>
<p>I should point out that two of the three &#8220;Similar Sex Blogging&#8221; links at the end of this post take you to photographs of what you are calling &#8220;color&#8221;.  (Doesn&#8217;t that sound dehumanizing to you?  I&#8217;d much prefer to say something like &#8220;photographs of women&#8221;.)  So if this post was the only &#8220;color&#8221; you found on ErosBlog, I submit to you that your search was defective.</p>
<p>Glad you &#8220;otherwise&#8221; enjoy the site, and sorry I can&#8217;t (won&#8217;t, prefer not to) help you in your ongoing quest for color-labeled porn.</p>
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		<title>By: Ms Coco</title>
		<link>http://www.erosblog.com/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/#comment-64848</link>
		<dc:creator>Ms Coco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.erosblog.com/wp/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/#comment-64848</guid>
		<description>I've arrived here through various links. 

As a woman of color, I'd like to attempt to put in my two cents about the need for ethnorotica.

Default is the issue. 

Being oblivious to what is default does not make it any less so. Nor does it contribute to changing it.

The reason why there is a need for sites like ethnorotica is the same reason I can't find a band-aid to match my skin.

Narrowing focus so it's easier for me and other non-defaults to find porn reflective of themselves is not a bad thing.  

Specializing in that form is sadly, the only way that I can find variety in any form that is not degrading or stereotyping.

Assuming that one's one own obliviousness to the absence or presence of diversity is somehow a positive, is an exercise in earplugged "la-la-las". 

Having just done a similar search on your site for color, for example, I found only this article; featuring an African amputee. A photo which is clearly not meant to be sexually arousing.

Love this site, otherwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve arrived here through various links. </p>
<p>As a woman of color, I&#8217;d like to attempt to put in my two cents about the need for ethnorotica.</p>
<p>Default is the issue. </p>
<p>Being oblivious to what is default does not make it any less so. Nor does it contribute to changing it.</p>
<p>The reason why there is a need for sites like ethnorotica is the same reason I can&#8217;t find a band-aid to match my skin.</p>
<p>Narrowing focus so it&#8217;s easier for me and other non-defaults to find porn reflective of themselves is not a bad thing.  </p>
<p>Specializing in that form is sadly, the only way that I can find variety in any form that is not degrading or stereotyping.</p>
<p>Assuming that one&#8217;s one own obliviousness to the absence or presence of diversity is somehow a positive, is an exercise in earplugged &#8220;la-la-las&#8221;. </p>
<p>Having just done a similar search on your site for color, for example, I found only this article; featuring an African amputee. A photo which is clearly not meant to be sexually arousing.</p>
<p>Love this site, otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Comstock</title>
		<link>http://www.erosblog.com/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/#comment-5442</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Comstock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Apr 2006 14:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.erosblog.com/wp/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/#comment-5442</guid>
		<description>It was only recently I realized I failed to mention that the lesbian title we have in post features two black women. Perhaps that explains why pre-orders for that title have been weak as compared to our (white) straight title and (white) gay title.

I guess I've got a thing or two to learn about marketing "ethnic erotica".

Oh wait, I forgot to mention they were lesbians too. Doh!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was only recently I realized I failed to mention that the lesbian title we have in post features two black women. Perhaps that explains why pre-orders for that title have been weak as compared to our (white) straight title and (white) gay title.</p>
<p>I guess I&#8217;ve got a thing or two to learn about marketing &#8220;ethnic erotica&#8221;.</p>
<p>Oh wait, I forgot to mention they were lesbians too. Doh!</p>
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		<title>By: Sekss</title>
		<link>http://www.erosblog.com/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/#comment-5441</link>
		<dc:creator>Sekss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.erosblog.com/wp/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/#comment-5441</guid>
		<description>What I don't like is that nowadays if you look at the "world" beauty contests even the black women look like they are white Babies with darker skin. What I mean this is how a black women looks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I don&#8217;t like is that nowadays if you look at the &#8220;world&#8221; beauty contests even the black women look like they are white Babies with darker skin. What I mean this is how a black women looks.</p>
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		<title>By: kali</title>
		<link>http://www.erosblog.com/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/#comment-5440</link>
		<dc:creator>kali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 16:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.erosblog.com/wp/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/#comment-5440</guid>
		<description>I think I see good points on both sides.  In terms of social interaction color matters because of history and ongoing racism, it's not something that can be idealistically negated because it "shouldn't" matter.  The reality is that social dynamics include race as a parameter.  

Bacchus (and, by all means, please correct me if I've misinterpreted) is espousing the view that beauty is not related to race, and I agree.  Beauty is beauty.  

I think Lex is addressing the issue that though beauty is not bound by race, the portrayal is.  His "race matters" seems to be more about the fact that if beauty/sexuality is only portrayed in limited ways, then there is a problem.  And he's right, most media point to skinny white women as the epitome of beauty, and only portray women of color as stereotypes.  Providing an alternative set of "beautiful" options provides variety to those who don't want to see the same icon over and over.  It also provides for people who have preferences that don't include skinny white women.  

If no one addresses the issue, it doesn't go away.  At the moment, you can vote in the US no matter what color your skin is or what the arrangement of your gonads is, but it didn't get that way without people pushing to let those groups into the "mainstream."  

Ideally, projects like this one, which propone the idea of beautiful women of all colors and ethnicities by demonstrating non-typical examples, will erode the stereotypes that limit the expression of beauty to one race and body type.  Eventually race will be as meaningless to the portrayal of beauty as it is to the actual aesthetics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I see good points on both sides.  In terms of social interaction color matters because of history and ongoing racism, it&#8217;s not something that can be idealistically negated because it &#8220;shouldn&#8217;t&#8221; matter.  The reality is that social dynamics include race as a parameter.  </p>
<p>Bacchus (and, by all means, please correct me if I&#8217;ve misinterpreted) is espousing the view that beauty is not related to race, and I agree.  Beauty is beauty.  </p>
<p>I think Lex is addressing the issue that though beauty is not bound by race, the portrayal is.  His &#8220;race matters&#8221; seems to be more about the fact that if beauty/sexuality is only portrayed in limited ways, then there is a problem.  And he&#8217;s right, most media point to skinny white women as the epitome of beauty, and only portray women of color as stereotypes.  Providing an alternative set of &#8220;beautiful&#8221; options provides variety to those who don&#8217;t want to see the same icon over and over.  It also provides for people who have preferences that don&#8217;t include skinny white women.  </p>
<p>If no one addresses the issue, it doesn&#8217;t go away.  At the moment, you can vote in the US no matter what color your skin is or what the arrangement of your gonads is, but it didn&#8217;t get that way without people pushing to let those groups into the &#8220;mainstream.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Ideally, projects like this one, which propone the idea of beautiful women of all colors and ethnicities by demonstrating non-typical examples, will erode the stereotypes that limit the expression of beauty to one race and body type.  Eventually race will be as meaningless to the portrayal of beauty as it is to the actual aesthetics.</p>
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		<title>By: Bacchus</title>
		<link>http://www.erosblog.com/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/#comment-5439</link>
		<dc:creator>Bacchus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.erosblog.com/wp/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/#comment-5439</guid>
		<description>First of all, Lex, let's not overcharacterize my point -- I said I wasn't "fundamentally sympathetic" to your project, but I hope I didn't suggest that I found it objectionable.  I've used words like puzzling and baffling, yes, but I wouldn't have linked so swiftly if I had any serious objection.  In fact, I think you've presented a very nice selection of quality porn.

The way to avoid moronic/bad/evil/stupid porn (whether it's lily-white cum-soaked-fuckholes or racist/ghetto porn) is to *avoid* it, which I try to do.  I strive mightily to avoid posting porn that fails to respect its subjects, and I strive even *harder* to avoid reproducing or linking to the misogynistic or racist or otherwise idiotic sales text that surrounds a lot of otherwise unobjectional porn.

Look, I don't argue that it's "not OK" to present alternatives to the stupid/foul/hateful porn out there; I try to do that very thing every day.  What I don't understand is why you would choose to filter that presentation by race.  "Color matters" was once the exclusive motto of racists.  My own preference is to let them keep it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, Lex, let&#8217;s not overcharacterize my point &#8212; I said I wasn&#8217;t &#8220;fundamentally sympathetic&#8221; to your project, but I hope I didn&#8217;t suggest that I found it objectionable.  I&#8217;ve used words like puzzling and baffling, yes, but I wouldn&#8217;t have linked so swiftly if I had any serious objection.  In fact, I think you&#8217;ve presented a very nice selection of quality porn.</p>
<p>The way to avoid moronic/bad/evil/stupid porn (whether it&#8217;s lily-white cum-soaked-fuckholes or racist/ghetto porn) is to *avoid* it, which I try to do.  I strive mightily to avoid posting porn that fails to respect its subjects, and I strive even *harder* to avoid reproducing or linking to the misogynistic or racist or otherwise idiotic sales text that surrounds a lot of otherwise unobjectional porn.</p>
<p>Look, I don&#8217;t argue that it&#8217;s &#8220;not OK&#8221; to present alternatives to the stupid/foul/hateful porn out there; I try to do that very thing every day.  What I don&#8217;t understand is why you would choose to filter that presentation by race.  &#8220;Color matters&#8221; was once the exclusive motto of racists.  My own preference is to let them keep it.</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://www.erosblog.com/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/#comment-5438</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Apr 2006 13:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.erosblog.com/wp/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/#comment-5438</guid>
		<description>What I noticed was an *absence* of variety. God forbid I should want to post a pretty brown-skinned woman on my website from time to time without all the annoying ghetto stereotypes thrown in. Ethno is my attempt to pull together erotic imagery from sites that -- at the very least -- aren't blatantly offensive in terms of race. I don't see how this is objectionable in the least. And I don't see how it's any different than what alt-porn attempts to do re the presentation of women in porn.

I don't know how anyone can argue that it's okay to present alternatives to cum-soaked-fuckholes (thus calling attention to gender stereotypes), yet it's somehow not okay to present alternatives to ghetto porn (thus calling attention to racial stereotypes). Shutting up about a problem doesn't make it go away.

And yes, the overwhelming whiteness of porn *is* an argument for why color matters. At the very least, we have to ask ourselves why it is -- if beauty is beauty as you say -- that the beauty presented to us adheres to a very narrow standard in terms of ethnicity. Especially at a time when many other kinds of beauty standards are being challenged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I noticed was an *absence* of variety. God forbid I should want to post a pretty brown-skinned woman on my website from time to time without all the annoying ghetto stereotypes thrown in. Ethno is my attempt to pull together erotic imagery from sites that &#8212; at the very least &#8212; aren&#8217;t blatantly offensive in terms of race. I don&#8217;t see how this is objectionable in the least. And I don&#8217;t see how it&#8217;s any different than what alt-porn attempts to do re the presentation of women in porn.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how anyone can argue that it&#8217;s okay to present alternatives to cum-soaked-fuckholes (thus calling attention to gender stereotypes), yet it&#8217;s somehow not okay to present alternatives to ghetto porn (thus calling attention to racial stereotypes). Shutting up about a problem doesn&#8217;t make it go away.</p>
<p>And yes, the overwhelming whiteness of porn *is* an argument for why color matters. At the very least, we have to ask ourselves why it is &#8212; if beauty is beauty as you say &#8212; that the beauty presented to us adheres to a very narrow standard in terms of ethnicity. Especially at a time when many other kinds of beauty standards are being challenged.</p>
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		<title>By: Ava</title>
		<link>http://www.erosblog.com/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/#comment-5434</link>
		<dc:creator>Ava</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.erosblog.com/wp/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/#comment-5434</guid>
		<description>I totally agree with you in spirit, but I think there is something to be said for catering to specific tastes. This is why there are so many "big tit," "small tit," chubby women," etc. etc. sites.

I have a girlfriend who is only into Asian guys. She won't even date non-Asian men. She isn't a racist, and I'm sure she would see beauty in African or Latino men, but she is *into* Asians. A site dedicated only to naked Asian men would be like heaven for her, I'm sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree with you in spirit, but I think there is something to be said for catering to specific tastes. This is why there are so many &#8220;big tit,&#8221; &#8220;small tit,&#8221; chubby women,&#8221; etc. etc. sites.</p>
<p>I have a girlfriend who is only into Asian guys. She won&#8217;t even date non-Asian men. She isn&#8217;t a racist, and I&#8217;m sure she would see beauty in African or Latino men, but she is *into* Asians. A site dedicated only to naked Asian men would be like heaven for her, I&#8217;m sure.</p>
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		<title>By: Bacchus</title>
		<link>http://www.erosblog.com/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/#comment-5437</link>
		<dc:creator>Bacchus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.erosblog.com/wp/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/#comment-5437</guid>
		<description>Update: Lex, I've looked at your new comments on Ethnoerotica, and they only leave me more puzzled.  You say my dream of judging a woman's erotic appearance consideration of her race is "a fine sentiment" but "unfortunately we have a long way to go."  If you agree that it's the right direction, why do you then marshall four arguments for going in the *other* direction, justifying paying more, and not less, attention to race?

I'm almost amused (but a bit horrified too) that your first reason "why color matters" (in your words) is that porn is "overwhelmingly white".  That wouldn't be an argument for the proposition unless we'd already agreed that the proposition was true, would it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Update: Lex, I&#8217;ve looked at your new comments on Ethnoerotica, and they only leave me more puzzled.  You say my dream of judging a woman&#8217;s erotic appearance consideration of her race is &#8220;a fine sentiment&#8221; but &#8220;unfortunately we have a long way to go.&#8221;  If you agree that it&#8217;s the right direction, why do you then marshall four arguments for going in the *other* direction, justifying paying more, and not less, attention to race?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m almost amused (but a bit horrified too) that your first reason &#8220;why color matters&#8221; (in your words) is that porn is &#8220;overwhelmingly white&#8221;.  That wouldn&#8217;t be an argument for the proposition unless we&#8217;d already agreed that the proposition was true, would it?</p>
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		<title>By: Bacchus</title>
		<link>http://www.erosblog.com/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/#comment-5436</link>
		<dc:creator>Bacchus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.erosblog.com/wp/2006/04/09/nude-women-skin-color-huh/#comment-5436</guid>
		<description>Lex, I'm still baffled (I think I'll always be baffled) by why the color of the models was a sorting criterion you even *noticed*, much less why it would motivate you to start a website.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lex, I&#8217;m still baffled (I think I&#8217;ll always be baffled) by why the color of the models was a sorting criterion you even *noticed*, much less why it would motivate you to start a website.</p>
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