On Looking At Women
CJ at Boyspoke posts from the front lines in an LA gym, about getting glared at when looking at women:
The thing is, these women — you know, the ones at the gym? They’re dressed — umm — gorgeously. Yes, even at the gym. I mean, I know Spandex is a privilege and not a right, but these women deserve to wear Spandex. Some of them even go as far as to wear athletic bras. And just athletic bras…at least on top; yes, they put on stuff that covers their other parts. It’s like, hel-LO, gorgeous women are all around me and some of them are dressed in even less than the ones I see walking down the street!
Naturally, I look. And I’m not really a gawker, but there are some times when I’m checking out the women. You would, too. It’s not like I’m making comments and pointing or being incredibly obvious or anything like that, I’m just, you know…gently checking them out. The problem is: some of them apparently don’t take kindly to being checked out. I get dirty looks in return.
I call foul on that. In fact, I call triple-foul on that. For crying out loud, if you’re dressed in an outfit like that, how can you expect me not to check you out? You’re wearing next to nothing. And the stuff that you are wearing is barely leaving anything to the imagination. Honestly, I think it’s be a crime for me not to look.
Here’s my thing: If you don’t want to be checked out, then dress accordingly. If you don’t want me to look at your boobs, cover them. If you don’t want me to admire your legs, don’t wear short shorts. There’s no law that prohibits you from wearing a loose t-shirt and baggy track pants instead of a sports bra and Spandex Daisy Dukes. And if you do wear the sports bra and Spandex Daisy Dukes … you’re not allowed to be displeased when I check you out.
First of all, there’s admittedly a line between looking and leering that not all men can find — or maybe they just don’t care to. But if we assume, despite the dirty look evidence to the contrary, that CJ is safely on the right side of the line with his “gently checking them out”, what’s up with that?
I know the gym is a problem for some women; in my town we’ve got women-only gyms and gyms with women-only areas for just this reason. But at the coed gym, when a woman has dressed to impress, does she really expect the guys to maintain monastic eyes-front-and-downcast look-at-nothing-but-the-equipment-in-front-of-me eyeball discipline? If so, is she not manifestly insane?
I have my own theory, which is that when she’s dressed to impress but glaring at you for looking, you’re not in the category of people whose eye she hoped to catch. Just for instance, you might be a man, ugh, and she might be there to attract the gaze of another woman. Or you might not meet her standard of beauty; she wants to catch the eye of someone as svelte as herself, and can’t abide being looked at by some regularly-sized slug.
Shorter URL for sharing: http://www.erosblog.com/?p=1533
Or, as my gym-going girlfriend can attest, working out is often rather sweaty and having a baggy anything sticking to one and trapping cooling sweat is supremely uncomfortable. It’s thankfully becoming more common wisdom that nudity is not to be confused with sex, and I think this is similar: skimpy clothing is not necessarily the same as dressing to impress.
That’s not to say that admiring should be taboo. Rather, a woman signalling that she doesn’t appreciate it isn’t being hypocritical by dressing appropriately to the task at hand. I’d call no foul.
Saxifrage – it’s more uncomfortable for most women to be wearing tight clothes while stretching, lifting, and moving excessively than it is to sweat and have your clothes touch you. When you work out, you’re supposed to work up a sweat, that’s why there are clothes designed specifically to aid the process. I’m of the mind that any girl who wears skin-tight shorts and a sports bra in a public place knows exactly what she’s doing, and is obviously encouraging it. Pretending she’s shocked and embarrassed or offended by being stared at while she gyrates on exercise equipment in practically her panties is generally just part of the act.
Gym going girlfriend here too, and what Saxigrage said.
There’s no really a plot of women dressing nicely-so-they-can-give-evil-eyes-if-checked-out.
Maybe it’s the sweat, maybe it’s because it feels good, maybe she want’s to try that brand new cloth, maybe she doesn’t like you checking them out but hope someone else will.
Whatever it is, they have the right, in my opinion, to dress how they want and shoo away who they want without being considered hypocrites.
I’d like them to continue to dress like that when feel like it, see?
There is a clear difference between “dressing for comfort” as some of you women said and dressing like the women he metioned.
If these women wanted to dress for “comfort” and still be covered enough to not get the expectable look, there are other alternatives than looking like a jerk at the gym and giving every guy the crusty.
Oh, and let’s not forget that the point of working out IS to sweat. Yeah, let’s not forget that.
When I go to the gym I prefer tight fitting clothes. I agree with Saxifrage (above) that having baggy clothing sticking to you is uncomfortable. I also prefer lower cut tops to round neck tees because I do not like the close feeling of the material around my neck. I’m dressing purely for my comfort and I’m certianly not dressing to impress another man. Why would I do that? I have one already, thank-you very much.
However, having said all that, the comment “she might be there to attract the gaze of another woman” creeps into my head more than once while I look at other women there and I do often wonder if they’d like to share our bed. Sometimes, you just can’t help yourself.
“If you don’t want to be checked out, dress accordingly.”
Oh, bull. Granted, I don’t usually mind a “gentle checking out” glance but I am sick of being expected to either put up with men’s looks or wear a sack. I’m no model but since I can’t hide my boobs without resorting to the aforementioned sack, I get looks all the time. Or rather, the girls do. And you know, sometimes I just get sick of it.
I’ve never worn just a sports bra top in front of men but I wear close-fitting clothes for comfort. I’m not “asking for it” I’m just trying not to sweat to death. So that’s why an evil glare may occur.
it is in the nature of man to look. deal with it.
in any case, women do the same thing. for myself, i just try to be subtle about it.
Bacchus – once more I understand why keep visiting this blog even though I’m as vanilla as can be (or think I am… hehe…): you understand and, even better, state clearly what (other? most?) men can’t grasp. You are a miracle.
Men, how covered up is considered “covered up?” I’m a runner, and I’m modest about my clothing as far as coverage, but I need to wear the tight-fitting, moisture wicking clothes. I do usually wear a baggier top over my sports bra (more of a sports tank,) but sometimes that has to some off, too.
Heheh, my problem isn’t so much the men gawking though–I really don’t pay much attention, it’s more my own insecurity about my weight!
Hmmm, veering slightly off-topic, there’s nudist facilities with gyms. Haven’t had a chance to be in one yet, but i do feel that exercising in the nude may be the best way, barring obvious safety (be careful with certain machines on certain delicate patches of skin) and hygiene arrangements (the compulsive use of a towel by nudists could be basically indispensable here, always wipe the equipment you were on, and if you wanna go a litte bit farther have a small bottle of one of those instant cleaning and disinfecting sprays), but i see it as a positive progression…
And in fact it’d be a regression, since “Gymnasium” comes from the greek word for nudity, as they all exercised in the nude. If you want to have extra amusement, you may want to know that the greeks that ran in the ancient olympics weren’t technically fully nude, but used this unusual article of “clothing” called a “kynodesme”:
http://www.addi...d.htm
Sucks for us circumcized ones, since this one depends on having a prepuce. Oh well, someday i’ll get seriously into restoring. :D
Seems like all situation normal to me:
Women wear what they want – baggy, close-fitting, shiny or dull.
Men look at women – doesn’t too much matter what they’re wearing, though in almost all cases, less/tighter clothing = more looking.
Women either respond positively to the attention, ignore it, or respond negatively, according to some externally unknowable mix of their intentions, mood, preferences, perception of the attention-giver’s attractiveness, etc.
No foul in dressing however you want, No foul in looking if you find it eye-catching, no foul in getting the evil-eye back, IMHO.
Most straight men I’ve met have been at leats mildly uncomfortable in a gay male gym. But somehow, that’s different, isn’t it?
Horatio said it best… nothing’s really wrong with this picture. The problem arises because there seems to be a fine line between functionality and fashion in womens’ clothing, esp sports wear where satisfying one requirement mostly satisfies the other. Any differentiation mostly depends upon whether you are the wearer or the observer.
But gym wear also needs to be put in the overall context of womens’ clothing in general. Women’s clothing is designed to make her attractive to men. Period. Take a simple shirt, for example. Men’s shirts are worn buttoned to the Adam’s apple as though they are trying to hide something personal and sexy. Women’s, on the other hand, are worn open, from a couple of inches below the neckline to low enough to let you know there is something very nice you can almost see. A tease, no? Is it because women run warmer than men and need looser clothing? Not likely. I won’t go on, but it seems across the board womens’ clothing is designed and worn to showcase her femininity. This means receiving the glances of men… (and some women too…
:P) Consider the leering a compliment, any time.
Hold on… Is it being suggested that a woman should take complete responsibility for her sexual objectification? Is covering up or opting for a woman’s only gym the only solution for the problem?
And since when is nudity/skimpy clothing inherently sexual? Since when are people who fit a narrow ideal of beauty the only ones allowed to wear what they want?? Sorry, the logic that revealing clothing is an exercise in sexual objectification does not fly.
Mainstream N. America today is relatively repressed and narrow minded in terms of representations of nudity or contexts for nudity as compared to many other cultures I’m familiar with. We think we’re so progressive when the truth is, our most prominent cultural venues for nudity are overly fetishized and sexualized – porno and advertisements that for the most part, only feature bodies of a very specific aesthetic and age. It’s pathetic.
I think it would be better for our society to expand its contexts for nudity and become more open minded about the body in general. I don’t think a constructive answer is to say things like: women should suck it up, accept being objects, men will always look sexually so women should just get used to it or run away to women only environments etc. Is that something you’d want for your sister? Your mother? Your teenaged daughter?
Precisely. PRECISELY. They are simply angry because you’re the wrong _category_ of _object_ they hoped to attract.
It is a petty form of objectification, coveting certain glances but being retributive for others.
For me, when I work out, I’m pretty serious, and when I lift, etc I fix my gaze on random distant objects. Often I’ll finish a set and realize I’m looking 3-10 degrees near one such female, who then gives me a dirty look.
Which makes my gym experience–a major source of pleasure in my life–uncomfortable.
What is the solution? Well, I can just objectify them right back. Start thinking “well, if I stare I stare and I don’t care what you sluts think.” It is a bad thing to do, but it is simply self-defensive thinking.
Good work, girls!
I know that when I’m exercising, I don’t feel or feel like I look remotely sexy. Onlookers may disagree, but the fact is, if I wear “revealing” clothing to the gym, it’s because it’s functional/comfortable.
And some of you guys are being awfully general when you say that the women glaring at you are deliberately dressing sexy and then spurning the attention of the guys who aren’t appealing to them. There may be women who do this, but certainly all of them don’t, and it’s unjust to make a blanket statement and quite frankly, makes you look bitter and hateful.
“Most straight men I’ve met have been at leats mildly uncomfortable in a gay male gym. But somehow, that’s different, isn’t it?”
sinboy
Actually, it is. I know a lot of men who are uncomfortable when another man checks them out in general… But I also know a lot of women who are much more uncomfortable when other women check them out than when men do.
I’m not saying its right -I’ll not try to apply moral standards to what makes people uncomfortable. Personally, I just ignore any unwanted attention from either gender, and if I’m enjoying it I’ll respond with glances or light flirting. That’s all there is to it for me -I’m not exactly certain why glances in a gym are a issue anyway; now, in a church or an alley I can understand.
However, for the sake of argument I would like to point out that different people do things for different reasons. In some cases, I would definitely agree with Brad, but in others I would agree with yabonn.
And yabonn, I actually know a couple girls who have a plot to dress nicely-so-they-can-give-evil-eyes-if-checked-out.” A terrible truth is that it sometimes makes some people feel better about themselves to do such things. -just saying again, can be just about any reason in a particular instance.
“It is in the nature of men to look – deal with it” !!??
How about, it should be in the nature of men to have some manners. If you are so desperate to satisfy your fantasies by staring at someone, have the respect to do it discreetly. Women wear what they wear because they want to wear it – should we go to the gym in a burkha?
Take some responsibility for how you make a woman feel by staring, and accept she’s not there for your amusement. She’s there to exercise, just like you.
Note to Saxifrage:
To my way of thinking, if one’s natural outer shell (nude body) can’t/shouldn’t be associated with sex, then looking at the form of that shell shouldn’t be assumed to be “leering”, or associated with the entertainment of sexual thoughts or fantasies, even if one is lingeringly appreciating that body’s beauty.
If baggy clothing is so uncomfortable to wear when one is hot and sweaty, then why do I naturally shun tight-fitting T-shirts and instead opt for loose, baggy shirts when mowing my summer lawn? Why do I wear tight fitting clothing in the wintertime such as stretchy long-johns to sleep in when I’m camping outdoors? Why do Mid-Eastern desert dwellers wear such loose, baggy, billowy robes?
In my world, gym clothes are marketed as being sexy, and yoga pants are worn in public by women who are TRYING to attract attention. Gym memberships and televised ads for exercise equipment are marketed to women who wish to “get that sexy swimsuit body”, not to women who want to be able to lift and re-arrange their furniture at will.
I don’t know any heterosexual women who would object to Brad Pitt, George Clooney, David Beckham, Russell Crowe, Daniel Craig, or Christian Bale staring at them at the gymnasium, but most of them would act offended if they caught Crispin Glover peeking their way.
If women think that men staring at them are only always thinking about performing sex acts with them, then that’s THEIR fantasy, which says more about the woman than the man. Human beings naturally will focus on the most beautiful person or object in the room. Given the choice between staring at Charlize Theron or a toilet bowl full of diarrhea, most all of us of BOTH sexes would stare at the actress. Given the choice of staring at Anne Ramsey (Mama, in “Throw Mama From the Train”), and a statue of the Venus de Milo, I’d choose the famous artwork, even though I couldn’t have actual sex with it, and presumably, I could (in theory anyway), have had actual sex with the actress. In other words, if a man is looking at you, he my merely be thinking that you are the most pleasant vision in his visual range, and even THAT may not be a conscious thought…