I really appreciate all the comments and responses I’ve gotten to the thread about nice guys, assholes, and female preference. The Boss over at The Collar Purple had a bit to say on the subject, and I’ve received numerous thoughtful emails on the subject as well. For instance, Sharon wrote that I got it wrong:

No, no, no, “doormat” is not the same as “attentive, considerate, emotionally involved, willing to
talk about feelings”.

They *are* different things. It is perfectly possible to be all those latter things (which women generally DO want) and NOT a doormat. I know many examples.

The big problem is: most men who do do the attentive, considerate, etc. thing are ALSO doormats. The challenge for a man is to be that stuff whilst also NOT being a doormat. I won’t say that it isn’t difficult, but it is possible.

It’s finding the difference between “attentive”, and “always pays more attention to her than to himself”. We don’t want the latter, which is doormatty. We want someone who can stick up for himself. We don’t want someone who always pays more attention to himself than to her, either. There is a middle ground!

Perhaps there is, but I’d have to say it sounds like a very narrow middle. In any case, the “we want someone who can stick up for himself” meme appears to have legs. Amber suggests:

Girls don’t like nice guys because they are almost always self-deprecating. That’s the crux of their “niceness,” they’re modest. Understand, that societal pressure lead most women to believe that they need to be protected, or at least have to marry someone who COULD protect them if necessary. When a guy puts himself down, a girl generally thinks “he’s nice, but if I were in a vulnerable position, would he stick up for me?” The answer is invariably no, because it’s obvious that the man will not even stick up for himself. While nice guys will argue that they WOULD stick up for the woman, she has no proof that this is fact. So she dates an asshole, feeling that if worse comes to worse, he’ll go to bat for her. This isn’t true, but there is more evidence to support that than the nice guy doing it.

Which sounds like a plausible theory. At least, it explains why those guys who are always picking fights in bars never lack for dates.

The Vanilla Sex Goddess weighs in on the question of women and their too-common fondness for assholes. Her post serves, perhaps, as anecdotal evidence for something I’ve suspected as a complicating factor in all this: namely, that whatever causes this asshole-seeking behavior may have something to do with a target identification malfunction.

First VSG says:

And I have to say, I have dated assholes, but I didn’t know they were assholes until later and at which point I dumped them.

Look, nobody’s saying women do this deliberately. But I’ll betcha VSG had men in her life who could have told her right up front those guys were assholes, if she had but asked. I wouldn’t be shocked to learn that some of those men even tried to tell her when she didn’t ask – although most of us have learned better by now. It takes a true friend to stick his dick in that particular blender.

VSG goes on:

The men who describe themselves as being “nice guys” are rarely nice. They certainly aren’t any nicer than any other man. Instead they are doormats. And as I don’t much like doormats except to walk on, it’s not suprising that I don’t want to date them, nor any other woman.

By the time I hit 25 these men were no longer doormats. They were instead, manipulative, passive aggressive, whiney, or too demanding of my time for my taste. They love to tell stories of how this woman or that woman did them wrong, and what manipulative bitches they were. (This is bad fodder for a first date) and I am still turned off.

No nice guy (the old fashioned word for the man I am talking about used to be “gentleman”) uses a word like “bitch” to describe a woman. Period. End of sentence. Move on to next paragraph. These are not the droids you were looking for.

Having said that, I’ll confess to having spent some time in my twenties in doormat mode. Young men are raised these days, the ones who are raised at all, to be attentive, considerate, emotionally involved, willing to talk about their feelings, and above all, cooperative with the whims of the fairer sex. Which is a very nice way of describing the “door mat” in the above quote.

It turns out that our Betty-Friedan-reading mothers weren’t reliable, when they told us this is what the young ladies would be looking for. I cannot tell a lie — some of us have briefly whined (er, make that, “shared our feelings openly”) about this discovery. But the smarter among us are working on getting over it.

I’m sure women everywhere will understand if cookie deliveries decline as a consequence.

Cat Nastey (and where has her link been all this time? I’ll have to spank my webmaster. No, wait, that’s me, what a terrible idea.)

Start over. Cat Nastey writes in reference to this post that she doesn’t date assholes, that she only dates nice guys, and that she has a good one who brings her cookies, thank-you-very-much. And that’s good to hear. I didn’t mean to suggest (and I don’t think TheYeti or his pie suppliers were suggesting) that the female preference for assholes is universal, even if it’s common enough to be worth thinking about.

However, I do want to point out that I’ve heard Cat’s song before. Happy girls in good relationships often say this. Usually to your face. “Gee, you’re such a nice guy, if I wasn’t taken I’d snatch you up in a heartbeat.” It’s intended as, and is, a supportive gesture. But I’ve found it’s not a reliable indicator of what single girls actually do. Face it, a lot of asshole-seekers say they want a nice guy. Too often, they say it to their nice male friends while complaining about the misdeeds of their latest asshole.

But none of this diminishes Cat’s point. Cookie deliverers of the world, stay the course, take heart, and be of good cheer. Time is on your side.

Is cum good for the skin? Specifically, does it prevent facial blemishes or pimples? Or is that just a big fat lie invented by the patriarchy for selfish purposes? (“Go, patriarchy! Rah rah rah!” I really need a picture of cheerleaders without panties to put right here.)

Anyway, Nick and Lisa decided to find out.

Thanks, Daze, for the link!

I’m sorry about the unrelieved text the last few days. We’re sorely in need of a dirty picture to lighten things up. How about a random anime girl in chains?

Aaah. That’s just the thing.

The Yeti presents (in exchange for pies) some theories about why women are attracted to assholes. (This is pretty much an eternal mystery to us guys who work at being nice fellows, and who are consequently richly rewarded by the friendship of numerous women who would never dream of sleeping with us.)

One of the Yeti’s theories, which I think has merit, goes like this:

Women want a MAN. Someone who makes decisions, follows their own course, isn’t afraid to speak his mind, has a purpose in life, protects his family and friends and country, and treats other people with respect when they deserve it. They can not stand a pansy. When confronted with the choice of an asshole or a pansy, they will always go to the asshole because at least they have a shot at tempering his rough edges. It is impossible to install a spine in a pansy.

Interestingly, in the comments someone points out the obvious – that it’s possible “to NOT be a wimp and simultaneously NOT be an asshole” – whereupon one of the pie suppliers makes it clear why this is a bad idea. I’ve never seen a woman admit this before:

And those other breeds you speak of–the unwimps and unassholes–they’re called “friends”. I could singlehandedly corrupt every stinkin’ one of them, but I choose not to.

Well, that settles it. Anybody got a copy of “The Nice Guy’s Compleat Guide to Becoming An Asshole Overnight In Order To Attract Women?”

Note to the humor impaired: I am kidding. There is a better way, the trick to which Halley has documented extensively.

There has been talk here before about the excellent tastes and smells of a woman. Although some women worry (needlessly) about how they taste and smell, thankfully others know better:

And for that matter, I’m not pleased with men who do not enjoy my taste. I know what I taste like, and I taste good, clean and crisp and sexy. I am unimpressed by a man who does not enjoy my taste. And really there is no faking it. If you are only willing to touch my pussy with the tip of your tongue I notice and am immediately turned off. There is more to my pussy than my clit for your tongue and my vagina for your cock. And actually while we’re at it the whole nether region is an erogenous zone feel free to explore. I suspect it’s no different for men, but I know that it is not enough for one to have technique; I want to think you are enjoying licking my pussy too. Nothing turns me on more than when a man sticks two or three fingers in my drenched pussy and then sucks the juices off.

Thus spake the Vanilla Sex Goddess.