Mark Davis: Strong And Intense
I still remember thinking in my naive pre-internet youth that “kinky stuff” had to be a purely male thing, that “no woman would want that sort of thing”. And of course, from there it would follow that male kinkiness was a sort of dangerous perversion, if it could have no expression with willing partners.
Ah, how little I knew!
Of course, these days anybody who reads sex blogs written by women (as are a large majority of the ones that have, you know, actual words) knows better.
As pointless as it can be for a man to speculate or generalize about the complex mental machineries of female arousal, you ladies should be aware that we still do it. I’m not sure we could refrain from doing it, to be honest; if anything’s hardwired into male behavior, modeling and attempting to game female sexual arousal is probably that thing. And one outcome of all the speculating and generalizing, for me, has been a partial theory of what women enjoy about rough kinky sex, bondage, and BDSM — really, that whole spectrum of sexuality that doesn’t quite fit the traditional hearts-and-flowers romance model.
I haven’t got time for a thousand words, so how about a picture?
It’s from Sex And Submission, and the rest of the shoot has plenty of ropes and gags and whips and toys and power-tool vibrators and bondage blowjobs and complex rigging with pulleys and all of the other overcomplicated gadgetry that men bring to the hobbies they really enjoy. But this one picture, I think, captures the essence of what’s in it for the ladies. Sometimes (maybe often, but I’m still trying not to overgeneralize here) women want to feel like a strong man like Mark Davis wants them, wants them so intensely that his own “better impulses” and socially-conditioned docility are just overwhelmed by his desire and lust for them. And they enjoy the idea, perhaps embodied in the photo above, that such a man will simply grab them and do what he will — because for the woman, that outcome is the ultimate proof of her own irresistible sexual attraction and desirability.
Where fantasy and reality differ, of course, is that a strong man who lacks that much self-control is dangerous — he cannot safely be allowed within about thirty miles of any human settlement. But a trustworthy man who can still project that aura of dangerous uncontrolled lust? He, it turns out, is a popular fellow indeed.
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A nice expression of the idea, except that your current wording implies that female kink = straight submissive female kink. You might want to clarify that.
More generally, I think the flaw in your framing is that it’s too gendered. Women and men are made of the same stuff, psychologically and biologically. Proportions may differ by individual and population, but differences are of degree, not of kind.
Hey, Vinnie. I don’t think I implied any exclusion of the possibility of non-hetero or non-submissive female kink, but I freely confess I was not talking about those in this post.
I suspect I have a more gendered worldview than you do, as I am not inclined to agree with much in your second paragraph.
I think it’s a good theory, and you can extrapolate on it, even if there’s only one example given. The theory applies very broadly if you reduce it to: women (heck, people) are turned on by the thought that they are sexually irresistible. Submissives get off on being taken forcefully, as mentioned, and dominants get off on “Holy crap, I’m so sexy, look what this person is letting me do!”
I also read this as suggesting that all women into kink are straight and submissive. But I think you’re on to something — I agree that the desire to be wanted is a big part of submission. I’ve had both men and women tell me that this is something they enjoy about being dominated, or even just being with an aggressive partner.
I think it would be a lot more meaningful to talk about what turns _people_ on, not men or women. I’m female, and I feel desirable when I’m approached, when someone is sexually aggressive with me. I’m attracted to dominant personalities, I like to be able to relax and be passive sometimes… but never submissive. On the other hand, a submissive friend of mine likes being ordered around because she finds it relaxing to be able to trust someone and not think for herself for a while.
Sometimes I like being dominant because it lets me take a completely different role. It can be a freeing experience to be subject when you’re used to being object, to turn around and look at a man like he might normally look at me, slowly, lustfully, with appreciation. It makes some men very uncomfortable, and I think that’s telling. There’s just a level of subversiveness, of scandal, in a woman topping a man, even today. I think that’s another thing that attracts some people to those roles.
You’re definitely tapping into the mentality of lots of romance novels here, so the motivation you point out seems to be pretty common.
i usually define my submission as wanting to be the ‘favorite toy’ for my Master; that’s the desire to be wanted :) But a big part of it, is just wanting to let go and let someone see the real me, with no restrains or pre-concepts.
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Eh, I personally like a fair bit of the ‘overcomplicated gadgetry’ and have bought a darn sight more of it than my other half. As you’ve pointed out, you’re generalised, but I think perhaps a little too much. I agree with Tegan that talking about people rather than women or men is probably more useful.
I’m a switch, though generally more submissive than not, and I have to say I don’t really agree with your reasoning on this, but I concede that there perhaps are women who do think this way, but not a great number.
I would also suggest that since sex and lust itself still carries a certain societal taboo these days that having sex *at all* can be seen as overcoming his ‘better impulses’, let alone domming. I’d also add that a man having sex with you at all is a show that you’re wanted, kink really doesn’t come into it in that way.
I’d also be interested in how you view the attraction of women to be dominate if this is your view of submitting? How does that fit with the idea that being wanted is being taken ‘by force’ (I was trying to think of a way to say that without implying rape, but I think I fail, although the last line of your penultimate paragraph does imply worrying consequences for rape)?
I find it difficult to find material for women that is not maledom, which I very much am not interested in. I wish there was a little more diversity and maledom was clearly labelled as being that rather than “the” female kink. I often have to read several pages in (online or book) for find that’s all that product has on offer so I can put it back and move on.
Not to take away from the message of the post, but the woman in that gallery of pictures is really quite sexy. I’ve seen her in two kink videos so far, and everything about her is quite amazing.
Bacchus, you’ve hit the nail on the head. Some of us get a major down-low jolt from that primal feeling. Well said!
Hey. I agree with Vinnie that the post was a bit gendered in an area that gender has little to do with, and I agree pretty strongly with the second paragraph there. If you think that’s why women want to be submissive, I would wonder why you think men want to be submissive.
I think Bacchus’ photo says more than his words do, although perhaps that’s just my reading of the intent. Some might say the look on the woman’s face is submissive, however I detect at least a small hint of “let’s see how good you are big boy, you’re not taking me without a fight.”
The guy’s intent is pretty clear, the woman’s is somewhat harder to read, but that wouldn’t surprise too many people I reckon.
I think people sometimes look for something in the bedroom they’re not getting in the rest of their lives, be it submission, dominance, the ability to throw stuff around and be messy, to break the rules, to make stuff up as you go along and not have to follow any rules, to make lots of noise, all in the company (hopefully) of someone you trust to go along for the ride and quest for intent of the evening, whatever that may be. The fact that some really hawt orgasms are usually involved just makes it that much more fun to do.
Or you could go back to hunter/gather stereotypes and say that men are looking for a woman who is strong (can fight them) but who is also willing to submit/realises when she’s beaten and should give in. That’s not as much fun though.
Ok…no deep thoughts here today. Just this….that is the hottest fucking photo I have ever seen!
I play in this realm a lot, and I’ve there’s kind of a corollary, which I will frame in a hetero maledom/femsub framework ONLY FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT, not because I think that’s the right and proper way of things.
A friend of mine calls BDSM “when we get to play in those dark places inside of us and still be loved afterwards.” In other words, I can do awful, mean, nasty, horrible things to someone, pulling out not the appearance of sadism but actual real joy in hurting someone, in taking them into really truly scary places, and afterwards, she still likes me. Conversely, she can ask to be humiliated, degraded, made to do and say the most subservient and fucked-up things imaginable, and like it – and yet, afterwards, I don’t treat her like that, I treat her with respect, love, and admiration, not just for her journey with me but also for everything else that she is. We are drawn to each other because we find that we love each others’ shadows, in other words.
Thanks, Greydancer. It’s a big elephant and I was describing, however good or badly, just a tiny part of it.
While I know obviously there is non-hetero kink and femdom kink, when we’re talking about hard numbers, I really think the male dom, female sub thing is something pretty much hardwired in some sense into most people. Romance novels are filled with subtext. And maybe not every vanilla person is clear on the relevance and link between dominant alpha male and whips and chains, but IMO it’s just different degrees of extreme for the same dance.
Another aspect of the female submission thing for some, is the ownership principle. It’s completely anti-feminist in it’s way that any woman would want to be owned or “feel” owned by a male considering the long and twisted history between the sexes, but nevertheless there it is. Besides just the uncontrolled lust principle, there is also that sense of “belonging” to a person and for a lot of women there is an extreme sense of safety in that, with the right person.
It’s no longer PC to talk about what men want and what women want, we have to drag out the big bag of what “people” want, for fear that we’ll emasculate men, or dehumanize women. But at the end of the day when we’re talking about generalities and large numbers, the numbers are overwhelmingly on the side of male dom, fem sub.
I’m not sure I agree with an earlier commenter’s post that gender has nothing to do with it. It has nothing to do with it for some people, but I think it has a lot to do with it for me and I really don’t believe I’m alone here. If I were male I highly highly doubt I would have the same flavor kink. I used to deny this up and down, it was more to be PC than how I really felt about the issue. I’m a female sub. I’m not a sub who “happens to be” female. I cannot separate my gender from this because how it plays out for me depends very much on certain common male/female dynamics that do nothing for me if the genders are switched. If it was JUST about the kink for me and not about the genders involved, I would be equally aroused seeing a woman dominate or a male submit. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with those things, but those scenarios do nothing for me. I don’t find them the slightest bit hot. That’s personal preference, not judging it wrong.
I can acknowledge that different people like different things, while still knowing my kinks lie in the majority for this particular issue. Just like homosexuality is in no way degraded or downplayed by the simple acceptance that heterosexuality is more common.