October 25th, 2008 -- by Bacchus
Faye’s Picnic
I’m not sure what’s more remarkable in this picture from ALS Scan:
My choice is between model Faye’s complete set of “leg laces” tattoos, or her plan and intention for that large pepper:
Either way: remarkable.
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OMG, her leg tattoos are amazing!
::jealous::
“de gustibus et coloravit non discutare”… too catwalk thin . I support mademoiselle violet’s view on the tattoo . With the perfect pair of diaphanous pantyhose and a little black dress, that lady would be mysteriously “provocante” .
I love those tattoos.
I tend to agree about thin, though often ALS manages to take models who aren’t normally my cup and make me dig ’em. They’re just really good at what they do.
Guys, I tend to agree that she could use a sandwich; it’s kind of a pity she doesn’t get to eat that pepper by the time she’s done with it. ;-)
Bacchus, maybe she’s just naturally thin.
Well, Laci, I’m not accusing her of using drugs or anything; beyond that, I’m not sure exactly what “naturally” means in this context or how I’m supposed to have suggested anything to the contrary.
All I’m saying is that she looks hungry to me.
Wow. Those are incredible.
I think their choice of a pepper as an erotic vegetable is interesting. Puzzling. But interesting.
Eve
Nice tattoos, but I always wonder what my kids would think. Or the people that will end up taking care of me when I’m 90 and in a nursing home.
I don’t recall ever seeing a tattoo that I thought enhanced a girl’s beauty. And Faye’s tattoos are depressingly distracting to me. While they may make her legs distinctive and unique, I simply find those tattoos ugly. Shame.
Why the shame, Griffyn? She she feels that they make her beautiful, isn’t her opinion the only on that counts? I do agree with Bacchus. She looks like a donut, or something, wouldn’t be remiss.
I must admit that I agree with commenter Griffyn on the tats…
Due to the plethora of tattooed strippers and porn models, I was actually surprised to recently read via the results of a poll (put out by a major porn producer), that I was not at all alone, and that most guys preferred their porn models without the graffiti.
I have been known on many occasions to remove them in photo-shop, and subjectively speaking, felt that it was an improvement…
I have to agree with Griffyn, haven’t really seen any tattoos that make someone look sexier, could be environment, whatever. makeup is often used to make skin look nicer, wonder if we’ll ever have body-contour tattoos that will work to enhance a body part’s shape?
In response to commenter Lee:
The ‘shame’ is that the efforts of Faye have had most likely the opposite effect on me than she intended. Her being a model, I think the opinions of her audience might matter to her very much.
Griffyn: Point taken.
I’m suggesting that it’s possibe that she eats plenty of food, and isn’t in the least bit hungry. She could just have a fast metabolism. Which would make her thinness a result of her particular biology rather than the fact that she “needs” to eat anything. I think it’s one thing to say that such a thin woman is not to your taste, and another to subtly suggest her relationship with food is responsible for her body type.
I don’t think you intentionally meant to imply anything of the sort, but I feel that your comment was about as negatively presumptive as someone looking at a larger model and commenting that she looks like she could stand to miss a meal. So I thought I would mention that thinness is not automatically a result of needing to consume more calories.
I’m rather thin myself, and I’ve always gotten comments like that. I guess it struck a nerve with me (and again, I know that this wasn’t intentional or malicious on your part at all). I mean, I could eat a whole friggin’ cow and I wouldn’t gain weight. It has nothing to do with my diet. It irks me when people make statements that broadly assume I must not eat enough.
As an aside, I’m a stripper, and once when I approached a table full of mixed-gender customers for dances one of the women looked at me disdainfully and said, “Honey, I’ll pay you to eat something.”
To which I replied, “And how much will you pay me not to throw it back up?” :-p
I hate tattoos on any one but the ones on the back of
her legs seem to hit a soft (now hard) spot for me.
the stars, tramp stamp or ” graffiti” else ware just
distract from her natural beauty. kinda like a fly
on the tv screen, or an engorged pimple you just can’t
keep your eye off of . well thats just me.
thanks for the Idea too. this would be so cool to draw
with a dry erase marker or something like that,over and over
again and have a virgin slate after every shower !
Laci, in a world in which the vast majority of women face enormous pressure to starve themselves in an attempt to maintain unrealistically thin body types, the scenario you paint is of course possible, but — lacking data in Faye’s case — it’s statistically very unlikely. For most people, our “relationship with food” is responsible for our body type, and I don’t see anything critical about saying so.
I do find it humorous that you, self-described as one of the rare and lucky people who are not physically affected by your relationship with food, can find a way to take umbrage at me when I try to do my bit to undermine the cultural constructs that encourage most women to starve themselves most of the time. If a few “naturally thin” women take offense at these efforts, I acknowledge the collateral damage, but I’m not deterred by it; the psychic pain such people (as a class) suffer due to misconceptions about their thinness seems modest, in the greater scheme of things, compared to the psychic pain so many women suffer in the impossible striving to be thinner than their metabolisms will easily allow.
Thus, I utterly reject your suggestion that my comment was “negatively presumptive”; it was indeed presumptive, but the presumption is statistically likely to be true and — far from being unthinking or negative — it was deliberately voiced for a purpose that I consider valuable, positive, and socially constructive. I’m guessing you won’t agree, but I hope I’ve at least explained myself a bit better.
While I’m by no means against tattoos, I think most people look “less naked” with them on.
Have you ever noticed how occasionally someone’s outfit will enhance their body in such a way that it makes it all the more intriguing? I think this is possible with tattoos, but I don’t trust myself enough to have the skill or taste to (or to find an artist who could…) select anything that would satisfy my own personal standards.
Well Bacchus, I’m not sure how to reply to such a slyly disingenous post.
[remainder of comment deleted for failure to maintain the level of civility required at ErosBlog — please feel free to try again after reading the FAQ. — Bacchus]
Also, I have faithfully read this blog, linked to it, and recommended it to various people online and in real life for over two years. And it is regrettably no longer something I will do.
As an aside, I’m a stripper, and once when I approached a table full of mixed-gender customers for dances one of the women looked at me disdainfully and said, “Honey, I’ll pay you to eat something.”
To which I replied, “And how much will you pay me not to throw it back up?”
LMAO! Well done.
You are right, of course, about her metabolism. You can pretty much tell by her body type that she’s just small-framed and probably eats just as much as she thinks she needs to.
The ‘shame’ is that the efforts of Faye have had most likely the opposite effect on me than she intended.
I know this is going to devastate you totally, Griffyn, but I am 100% positive she got the tats because she wanted them, not because some random person out in the world might like them. I know I got mine because I wanted it, not because of what someone else might think about it. I am 100% sure she doesn’t give the first shit about whether you find them attractive or not. I’d bet my life’s savings on that. ;-)
Gryffin: ‘Her being a model, I think the opinions of her audience might matter to her very much.’
Actually, what matters more for her career as a model is what photographers think her audience’s opinions are, and the accepted norms for the industry. As you yourself point out, those are not necessarily what the majority of men actually want.
For what it’s worth, personally I adore tattoos. There’s something as about someone using their body as a canvas and plaything that makes me weak at the knees. I don’t know of many stronger statements of ‘my body is mine and I’ll do what makes me happy with it’. Drool. That said the tats in this photo don’t work for me on an aesthetic level – they’re crying out for a variable line weight goshdammit, and to vary the width of the ribbons to emphasise the curves of her leg.
But I’m also a graphics geek :)
Bacchus: I’m sorry Laci is being rude, and I didn’t actually find your original comment offensive. But I have to say that calling the self esteem of thin people acceptable ‘collateral damage’ is really rather presumptuous. As though no one’s ever thought up a size acceptance philosophy that’s kind to all body types. It is in fact possible.
I’m another one of those lucky thin people (although I’m also very short – I don’t look like a model, I just look scaled down!).
I know I’m lucky, I don’t try to pretend that it’s a deep horrible burden or anything. But there’s a lot of really insiduous and insulting stuff in some of the ‘eat a sandwich, skinny girls!’ camp. I’ve been told to eat a sandwich myself, which anyone who has seen me eat laughs at, given that I stuff myself like someone who’s just run a marathon. And the whole ‘real women have curves’ thing – guess what? There’s a woman here who’s kind of straight up and down, but y’know, likes to think that doesn’t cast her out of the fold of Real Women (or Women Who Stick It To The Man, either). It’s insulting to assume that I’m starving myself for male attention or that even if I was that my femininity is diminished as a result. Or that ‘eat a sandwich’ type remarks are appropriate in that case. I can promise you that on the receiving end they don’t inspire a desire to eat, but just a rising frustration at the smug, comfortable superiority which it inevitably comes across with.
I’m not saying thin women suffer as much discrimination as fat or obese women – I’m not that self centred or stupid. But if you’re going to ‘try to do [your] bit to undermine the cultural constructs that encourage most women to starve themselves’*, why does it have to be at the expense of anyone‘s self esteem? I know natural skinnyness isn’t the norm but the solution to all this cultural crap isn’t to go ‘thinness, ewwww’ (except of course as a personal preference more kindly phrased) – the number of women affected is certainly smaller, but it’s really no more size accepting and female positive than ‘flab, ew’ is.
*Which, incidentally, I do think you actually succeed in doing in this blog as a whole. Astonishingly well in fact. I for one am going to keep reading, not flounce off even if you disagree with me :P
Hi Alexa. You said:
I know this is going to devastate you totally, Griffyn, but I am 100% positive she got the tats because she wanted them, not because some random person out in the world might like them.
:) Not really, but I find it hard to agree in this instance. I don’t doubt for a moment you got your tattoos for youself, and only yourself. But I think there is an obvious difference here, to someone as naive about tattoos as myself. That is, her leg tattoos seem designed to beautify her legs, compared to, say, the ones on her upper back that seem far more personal.
I’d venture that she had her upper back tattoos done for herself, and her leg tattoos as a “aren’t these awesome” kind of statement to the world.
Again – I have no idea whether this is the case, and you surely have more insight than I.
Hey, S, I’m just bummed that Laci decided to call me a liar (apparently she’s missed the long history I have of making and defending this sort of comment on this blog, I could dig up links to prove it if I cared that much) and then couldn’t continue the discussion civilly. I do appreciate your more measured approach.
I think the problem here is not the lack of a sufficiently flexible size acceptance policy, but rather my insistence that a thin woman is likely to be undereating. Purely as a statistical matter, I’m right; she is *likely* to be undereating, at great effort and personal cost. But, in individual cases, such as yours, I’ll be wrong.
The thing is, how hurtful is it, really, to accuse a skinny woman of dieting? Calling it “collateral damage” was deliberately outrageous on my part, sure; but my point is that in the balance of harms, I think that’s pretty slight, and you seem to agree with me, at least in part. And I genuinely do think there’s value in saying, at every opportunity, “hey, ladies, you don’t need to starve yourself thin in order to be attractive.”
There’s lots of ways to say that in several sentences without risking minor offense to the few thin women who don’t have to work at it — but really, all the brou ha ha here is in response to a 10-word throwaway line that was aiming for humor; there’s no way to build a paragraph of politically correct codicils into that without destroying the humor.
I put a lot of work into making and keeping ErosBlog a female-friendly place on the adult internet, but I swore early on that I wouldn’t for forced into political correctness (or silence my own voice and opinions about sexuality and female attractiveness) in order to do it. The result, inevitably, is a few people who get mad and stomp away in a huff. I regret that, but I’m not willing to change what I do enough to prevent it.
Hi Bacchus,
I just dealt with a couple of ‘Goodbye, cruel forum’ posts in the corner of the internet I happen to run too. I tend to think that they’re just a sign that you’re doing something interesting :)
As I said, I didn’t find your original comments at all offensive – a statement of your personal tastes plus a bit of innuendo is something I entirely encourage. It made me smile. My objections start at the ‘collateral damage’ comment, however selfconsciously provocative.
I objected to ‘I acknowledge the collateral damage, but I’m not deterred by it’ because it implies that 1) it’s acceptable to put down some women’s size for a good cause, 2) some women are more deserving of having their self esteem bolstered than others. Whereas I don’t think this is a zero sum game, in which there’s only a certain amount of wholehearted social acceptance to go around and it must be purchased at the cost of hurting people of a different body type. That is no different to the ‘only thin bodies are praisworthy’ viewpoint that you’re objecting to, it’s just the other way around. You may include more women in yours, which I guess is nice and all, but it’s not really getting away from the fundamental problems.
‘The thing is, how hurtful is it, really, to accuse a skinny woman of dieting‘
Perhaps I can explain why it irks me.
For you, saying that someone is dieting may be an acknowledgment of the ‘statistical matter’ that they’re probably making an effort to be the shape they are. And sure, yes, it is that. But whether you intend to or not, it also carries connotations of…
* Assuming that she’s doing so unhealthily
* Assuming she’s not happy about her weight
* Assuming she’s been brainwashed by ze patriarchy, women’s magazines etc
* Assuming she’s doing it to look better
* Assuming she’s doing it for male attention
* Essentially, assuming she’s not made her own decisions and compromises about how she wants to eat and her body to look
Basically, I get the impression a lot of the time that people just think I’m too stupid to be at an other weight. That I’m at this weight ‘at great personal cost’ as you put it, and I just need someone to explain to me that not being skinny is an acceptable option and I’ll suddenly realise and bow down and kiss their boots in gratitude.
It’s really very patronising to assume that people are the weight they are because they’re deficient of personal strength in some way, whether that’s the ability to stand up to societal norms or to get off your arse and stop stuffing your face.
Again I’d like to say I thought your original jokes were in perfectly good taste and pretty funny, not ‘negatively presumptive’ or whatever. So you may think I’m tilting at windmills. But I do take umbrage at the idea in your follow up comment that it’s not important to be kind about my body type because there are fewer of us. I don’t see that as size positive at all.
S, I appreciate the tilting and don’t mind being challenged on this, but I fear we’re never going to see eye-to-eye here. In large part, that’s because you’re putting a spin on my words that I never intended, and that I continue to reject — without any particular hope that I can convince you I don’t quite mean what you think I mean.
You see an implication (I’d call it an unwarranted inference) that my comments are “putting down” some woman’s size. I simply don’t see it that way.
I am, indeed, putting down certain assumptions about thinness, specifically as to its universal desirability and the value (above sanity, health, comfort, joy, or pleasure) that many people put on it. But the collateral damage I was talking about was never, in my view, to any woman’s self esteem or to her view of her size, because I still doubt whether my comments actually do that kind of damage.
Each of those connotations you list, save the last one, is, in fact, at a high probability of being true in specific cases of thin women — you acknowledge this with your phrase beginning “and sure”. Where we part ways is that you take the undeniable fact that somewhere out there, there’s a women for whom none of those connotations has a basis in fact, and you prioritize her reaction to my comment far above any good my comment might do in the broader world.
In response, I’m saying (1) such women are rare; and if you find one (2) I don’t think my comments are fairly construable as attacks on her size, nor are they likely to damage her self-esteem, which in most cases is likely to be much healthier and resilient than the self-esteem of the self-starving women my comments are aimed at supporting.
I’m all about individuality and people making their own choices; I routinely lambast that certain flavor of feminism that refuses to respect the choices women make. So I do “get” the accusation you’re making against me, I just don’t agree that I actually went there, even if you felt I did. Thus, I get why my comments “irk” you, but I consider that you’re reading more into them than was ever there, and then asking me to assign a very high priority to the slight negative impact of my comments.
It thus seems to me that what you’re doing is, despite your wondrously civil (and much appreciated!) approach to it, at the heart of the “political correctness” agenda that I reject. That agenda starts from the assumption that we should never say anything hurtful to people in protected categories; and that if we can’t find a way to avoid that, we shouldn’t speak at all. My own individualist/anarchist approach is that people should put on their big girl panties and big boy shorts when they get up in the morning. I don’t go out of my way to give offense or make hurtful comments, but sometimes it’s inevitable that people will get their feelings hurt in the course of vigorous debate, and when it happens, it’s “collateral damage” in the most literal sense — regrettable, sometimes, but always unavoidable unless you just shut up, because there’s always somebody out there who can find a way to take offense at anything, or treat a minor and unintentional slight as a vicious personal attack.
And that’s why I reject your suggestion that I ought to have been able to make my point without this particular collateral damage. Perhaps I ought to have been clever enough to find a way to do that; but I wasn’t, and I still don’t see how I reasonably could have in the context of this conversation. Nonetheless, I’m still not greatly worried by the damage in question, because it seems to me to be limited to a small amount of “irk” that’s well within the bounds of what vigorous conversational participants ought to be able to absorb without undue strain. And the conversation, itself, has value (it seems to me) that outweighs that slight negative result — the one you deem much less slight, thus making it unlikely that we’ll come to agreement on this.
Gryffin, you seem to be persisting in the idea that because her tats are visible, and possibly done for an “aren’t these awesome” value, that somehow the opinion of someone who isn’t turned on by tats is part of her perceived audience. Well, you aren’t her intended audience. Undoubtedly the people she is interested in attracting are people that are interested and attracted to tattoos.
And, I know this is difficult maybe to imagine but for some of us, before our body mods we never felt completely *ourselves* which can definitely interfere with one’s ability to express oneself sexually. For me – I always knew my labia needed piercing. My life is much better since I had it done, even though its not everyone’s cup of tea and of course its a pretty private thing. (Did have my gynocologist comment on it once.)
I tend to agree about thin, though often ALS manages to take models who aren’t normally my cup and make me dig ’em. They’re just really good at what they do.
Although I am not a fan of most tattoos, I do like to look at women. As a former graphic artist I would have preferred the laces were mirror images to each other to please my OCD.